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Google Login 2.0

by Kristopher Tate | 15 February 2006 | Development | 161 Comments

From many angles people have commented that Zooomr’s Google login feature is quite insecure. Even on the Zooomr Blog! While I certainly have no interest in collecting people’s passwords, I’m here to say that I have implemented a better method for logging-in via Google. It’s called TPass, and like the name suggests, it’s based off of Temporary Passwords.

Here’s a rundown:

Things will get better when GTalk is enabled because the TPass will be sent DIRECTLY to your IM client and you won’t have to hunt around for it.

Comment here if you have any more concerns, comments, or questions — Thanks!

Kristopher Tate

161 Comments

  1. Notes said on 15 Feb 2006 at 9:01 am:

    Follow-up to Authenticate Anywhere

    Yesterday, Joel commented on my authenticate anywhere post, talking about the security and privacy problems with the Google authentication in Zooomr. He is right, of course. Zooomr asks you for your login and password. Of you GMail account. And that’s…

  2. Eoban said on 15 Feb 2006 at 9:03 am:

    this is bullshit. no way people will put up with emailing new passwords to themselves every time they log in. terrible idea.

  3. Joel Alexandre said on 15 Feb 2006 at 9:13 am:

    This is just like recoving a password everytime you want to login. Not a very good idea.

    I haven’t looked at the info in detail, but maybe this could help: http://dystopics.dump.be/2006/02/04/the-mysteries-of-x-google-token-and-why-it-matters/

    Keep up the nice work.

  4. Kristopher Tate said on 15 Feb 2006 at 9:18 am:

    I’ve been actively working with Kris V. (The guy who wrote that article) to try and get X-GOOGLE-TOKEN working. The main problem is that modern browsers like FireFox will not allow XMLHttpRequest calls cross site (or over to google from Zooomr, and for good reason too). It’s a very tricky subject indeed.

    Just know that I’m actively working out a solution, and welcome anyone amongst the community to help in any means feasible.

  5. Fabio Manzoni said on 15 Feb 2006 at 4:28 pm:

    There are some problems on firefox… the buttons to send the mail and enter the tempass aren’t working.
    I had to switch to IE to enter zooomr…

    =/

  6. Kristopher Tate said on 15 Feb 2006 at 11:25 pm:

    Hi Fabio,

    I think the problem is that FireFox had stored an old version of the login code. I use FireFox to test Zooomr and I’m sorry that you had to go into IE in order to login.

    If something doesn’t work right, try super refreshing:

    On PC: Shift + CTRL + R
    On Mac: Shift + Apple/CMD + R

    Hope that helps!

    -Kris

  7. Jason H said on 16 Feb 2006 at 7:35 am:

    Although eoban was a little harsh, I would have to agree that having to find a new temporary password every time I wanted to log in would keep me away from Zooomr. I wouldn’t be opposed to an official login from Zooomr. I have about 100-150 different logins right now so one more won’t hurt. ;-)

  8. Kristopher Tate said on 16 Feb 2006 at 7:38 am:

    Thanks for your comment Jason,

    I will most likely migrate to a Zooomr login — but we’ll see how things play-out.

    -Kris

  9. Thomas Hochmann said on 16 Feb 2006 at 8:09 am:

    Kris - while this is not an ideal solution in the long run, I think you’ve handled it well in the short term. Having to e-mail myself a password every time I want to log on is less than stellar, but at least it puts to rest the immediate security issues people have.

    Keep up the great work! :)

  10. frijhee said on 16 Feb 2006 at 2:09 pm:

    The new google login methodology shows excellent promise… both from security, convenience, and scalability perspectives.

    What the Zooomr Team has done here is implement a One-Time Password login system. [Maybe we should rename it to 1-TPass to emphasize the 1-Time nature].

    Benefits here include:
    1) Users don’t have to remember a password for zooomr

    2) Users are automatically forced to use strong, frequently changing passwords

    3) Users are prevented from making classic password/login mistakes (e.g synchronizing passwords, easily guessable/crackable passwords, etc)

    4) An audit trail of logins (or attempts) is created and stored in a separate location (e.g. google)

    5) Concept could be expanded to provide scaling (e.g. any email account, alternate IM accounts, etc…)

    This authentication method is _different_ from what we normally encounter, but it is an elegant solution that should be encouraged and applauded for its innovation. Good balance between security and convenience/usability.

  11. Thomas Hochmann said on 16 Feb 2006 at 7:04 pm:

    My only issue as far as security vs. convenience/usability is, if I’m not at home it can be a pain in the behind to have to check my e-mail to log in to Zooomr. I can check my mail through the web, but it is annoying to have to do so when I just want to log in on the go and put up a new photo or something.

    I agree though, it is very elegant for what it is. I just hope it is not permanent… Or if it is, I hope that Zooomr adds a feature for migrating to one of the other login systems.

  12. Carlo said on 16 Feb 2006 at 9:02 pm:

    I generally agree with what frijhee said, but there’s one thing.. if we used our Google account to login, it seems that our zooomr page became http://beta.zooomr.com/photos/gmail_your.address

    So this generally makes our Gmail account visible to public?

    I apologize if I’m mistaken..
    Still, all the best! Keep up the good work! :D

  13. Carlo said on 16 Feb 2006 at 9:10 pm:

    Oops, sorry I didn’t take the chance to thoroughly explore the account settings. Managed to change the URL. Great feature :D

    Oh and am really looking forward to that “Send to GTalk” feature..

    Cheers!

  14. Fabio Manzoni said on 17 Feb 2006 at 9:07 am:

    The function send to email is interesting… but if you use Zooomr all the time, well… checking email all the time is very annoying.

    The send to google talk is very nice and I hope it’ll be ready soon…

    anyway, I would like to sugest an area that we can see what is comming next in Zooomr… and a place where we can send some sugestions. Great work Kristopher.

  15. Joe said on 12 Mar 2006 at 2:27 am:

    I don’t think I’m resisting innovation. This one-time pass thing is just way too inconvenient.

    I don’t understand what Thomas Hochmann means by “elegant” when he at the same time said “hope it is not permanent”.

  16. Joe said on 12 Mar 2006 at 2:32 am:

    Between Feb. 17 and today, no one besides me posted anything on this topic. Does that means all those who don’t like this one time pass already quit otherwise promising Zooomr?

    I wish I have change to come back…

  17. Joe said on 12 Mar 2006 at 3:12 am:

    So, I really didn’t want to quit so easily though it is hard. I signed up with OpenID. Not as convenient as a “regular” ID (Please don’t tell me again how great your idea is. It is just not what a regular user can grasp.) Then I got stuck with a new problem. The URL I’d like to have was taken by my previous Google account. Now I’m fighting with myself for a URL. By the way, I need to upload again the stuff I already uploaded to my Google account. Can I somehow merge the two accounts? Or at least, can I close that hard-to-use Google account so the URL can be freed. What a mess!

  18. emk said on 14 Mar 2006 at 1:53 am:

    Why does the login need to contact the Gmail server if a temp pass is being issued. This system could work for any email address, so why is it contacting gmail and what is it doing exactly?

  19. Nedward said on 15 Mar 2006 at 10:09 am:

    My Gmail account has been locked down twice today - first, when I signed up for Zoomer/MyOpenID.

    Then after it was restored, I tried to send a Gmail Tpass, and Gmail locked me out again.

    I thought perhaps that the first instance was unrelated, but literally within seconds of clicking “Send…”, I was booted again.

    No one else ran into this issue?

  20. Oblomov said on 16 Mar 2006 at 8:11 am:

    I haven’t had gmail account locking. However, the Tpass thing gets boring quite fast, so I decided to switch to the OpenID system.

    The problem is that now I have two Zooomr accounts, and I can’t seem to find a way to merge them …

  21. Matthew Humphrey said on 18 Mar 2006 at 1:23 am:

    I’m afraid this will be the end of Zooomr for me. I really want to use the service, but with GMail account lock outs and an inability to switch to another login scheme, I have no options. I guess I’ll just have to stick with Flickr; they have an awful UI design, but at least they have a workable authentication system.

  22. Matthew Humphrey said on 18 Mar 2006 at 5:16 pm:

    Wanted to leave a follow-up to my last comment. I switched to OpenID, and it works great! No complaints at all.

  23. Oblomov said on 19 Mar 2006 at 9:38 am:

    Matthew, did you manage to switch your existing account to OpenID, or did you have to create a new one? If you managed to switch your old one, how did you do it?

  24. seg said on 19 Mar 2006 at 11:37 am:

    Add one more person to the list of those left completely stunned by the horrible login system. You need to consider the user’s demands more than your own.
    Convenience is high up on the list. Security for person photos? Way low. I mean, these aren’t classified docs we’re dealing with, their friggin photos. Theres no reason why i should have to get a new password emailed to me everytime I want to login. Every second you keep this “feature” on the site, is another person you lose to flickr. Change this immediately.

  25. Oblomov said on 21 Mar 2006 at 5:37 am:

    I don’t think the login system is horrible. I do believe it should be improved by allowing people to log in to the same single zooomr account with any of the available login systems.

  26. mlong said on 24 Mar 2006 at 10:57 am:

    logging into Zooomer is a pain in the ass. why did i sign up for an account, log off and then come to find out i have to sign up for another service to login.

    terrible

    i give up. back to flickr unless a simple solution i missed exists.

  27. Harry said on 27 Mar 2006 at 3:20 am:

    I came along to see how good zooomr is. Turns out I won’t be coming back until I don’t have to resend my password everytime.
    Terrible idea. Just set up a proper zooomr account system and bin the rest.

  28. myke said on 28 Mar 2006 at 8:47 pm:

    i agree. i’ve signed up but it’s confusing having all of the different account ids to choose to login with … especially considering if one is a bother and you switch, it creates a whole new zooomr account. i do not like the openid thing especially considering openid won’t let you cancel the account. that’s really not good. the only way i can see zooomr really growing is simply adding normal contained login/id system of it’s own. everyone is used to having lots of logins for all of the sites they use and it would surely be better than what we have now. i like the url i created with the google account login and would want to keep it. I hope if you create a zooomr login system, current account holders can migrate their google or openid logins to a new zooomr id.

  29. Dan100 said on 7 Apr 2006 at 10:23 am:

    This is quite terrible. Like many of the above, I’ve been bitten by the “made first account with Gmail, now can’t have an OpenID account with same name” bug.

    The whole thing is a mess: to get any serious level of users here, you NEED a “same as the rest of the web does it” login and pwd system.

    Zooomr has some fantastic features - people tagging, audio notes, geotags - but it’s just too much of a PITA at the moment to use.

  30. grawity said on 10 Apr 2006 at 8:44 am:

    OpenID is much faster than temporary passwords.

  31. Michael said on 14 Apr 2006 at 6:35 pm:

    Kris,

    I agree with the sentiments of the previous posters. You had better integrate your login methodology very very quickly, otherwise you will not be able to make use of all the hype you are getting.

    I think you need to introduce a plain, vanilla, “get new account” system, and have a little link below that says “want to use Open ID/Level 9 etc etc for the nerds.

    The regular user will not know what the hell they’re doing with the complicated setup you’ve introduced. Too many choices is not always a good thing.

    Like I said, do this ASAP. For example, I was keen to use this service, and get a paid account, but I am holding out because I’m so worried that problems such as these will mean nobody will use them.

    You need to fix this fundamental problem ASAP.

  32. Courtney said on 17 Apr 2006 at 6:47 pm:

    I was excited to try out Zooomr. So I created an account and loaded up some photos. Now, to login again I find out that I have to get a new password everytime? What problem is this solving? If I had known I had to do this I would have made a specific login just for this site. I’m going to move to Flickr even though they are Yahoo. Hope you guys get it figured out.

  33. Frankie'sMom said on 10 Jun 2006 at 6:42 pm:

    I don’t find the 1 time temp password elegant at all. It is just plain annoying. I think I’ll just pass on this beta Zoomr until it gets more user friendly. There are far too many other places around to post photos for friends and family. UGH!

  34. Mirian said on 20 Jun 2006 at 5:31 pm:

    I have tried to post my pictures but I have received the same message: “error 404″. I already deleted some pictures but it didn’t work.
    Please, can you help me?

  35. Russell Limprecht said on 23 Jun 2006 at 1:31 pm:

    Wow, this is too confusing.

    I have an account under Russell. I login with the Gmail temp. Very annoying. So I decided to get an Open ID. Now I have two Zoomr accounts for Russell.

    This will hinder your growth big time.

  36. michel said on 24 Jun 2006 at 12:00 am:

    Hey, so how can I migrate my temporary account to a zooomr account?

    I like that I got to play with the site without having to struggle through yet another signup now! thingie, but now that i like the system, I want to become a permanent member :)

    michel

  37. Tony said on 24 Jun 2006 at 9:40 am:

    This is awful. I created a TempPass for Google, now I need to create every time a TempPass I want to log in?! How can I move my account from google/TempPass to LiveJournal?

  38. Marc said on 27 Jun 2006 at 6:48 am:

    @Tony: Amen

  39. sidekick said on 8 Jul 2006 at 3:41 pm:

    http://beta.zooomr.com/photos/sidekick

    can’t login again~
    the openid not work,

    when using gmail’s id, it setups another account…

    pls help

  40. sidekick said on 8 Jul 2006 at 4:54 pm:

    i can login finally… :)
    (using openid’s login, and the login procedure is so complicated for me)
    sorry for bothering

  41. Brian Jenks said on 9 Jul 2006 at 10:15 am:

    Hate to agree with all these posts, but I’ve run into the same issue. Logged in the first time using google tpass, I’m one of the ones that don’t mind having get a temp password each time, but I shouldn’t have to create a new account each time I log in. I think I now have three accounts on the system because of this. So how do I log into the same account using GTPass?

    Regardless, I think your own authentication process should be put into place and give people the option to use another login process if that is what they want to do (minus the bugs that appear to be present right now).

  42. David S said on 10 Jul 2006 at 6:10 pm:

    I really don’t want to log in via a TPass every time…I just signed up this way, but I thought I’d get a permanent password or a changable one after the first login. I come back and can’t get in without emailing myself again?! Please fix this ASAP…

  43. Eduardo said on 11 Jul 2006 at 12:58 pm:

    Yes, it’s rather annoying to get a new password everytime you want to check out your photos. This 30 seconds in which you get your new pass will certainly keep away a lot of people who look for comfortable solutions. Maybe the GTalk message will give us a new perspective o this solution..

  44. Wim said on 11 Jul 2006 at 2:32 pm:

    can i switch from this google tpass login to another login system, now it just seams to create a new account. Having one account and multiple login options seams a better idea. I would defenitely like to switch away from tpass for day to day use!

  45. ching said on 11 Jul 2006 at 10:32 pm:

    hi there, i m frustrated with checking gmail everytime i log in, so how do i switch to other log in mehtod (eg openID) with the same acc? sorry for asking a stupid question … :P

  46. Richard Rosalion said on 12 Jul 2006 at 2:28 am:

    Ditto to what ching said. This gmail login is going to get old REALLY quickly. While I can understand one-time passwords being secure, it’s a lot more security than one needs for a photo sharing site. I agree that trying to remember 100 different usernames and passwords isn’t ideal - but it’s better than this!

    Also, The gmail_username thing is not particularly nice either. A visitor to the zooomr site (or worse, a spammer!) shouldn’t know my gmail address.

    How about:
    1. Offer a “normal” login (i.e. register with a “zooomr” username/password)
    and
    2. Allow people to move from one login type to another.

    I’m hoping these things will be fixed in your upcoming release, but until then, I can’t see myself being able to use zooomr seriously.

  47. Ulf Bopp said on 12 Jul 2006 at 10:23 pm:

    I don’t understand your idiosyncratic login procedure. It seems like a bold step backwards in ease of use, designed to make your site uniquely frustrating. Your service seems good, but I’ve given up since I realized that I had to go through the Gmail routine every time.

    [Since your service is free I deleted a humorous examination of why you might have chosen this strange method.]

    It’s not like the content on your site is especially confidential, after all!

    Just give us plain old passwords.

  48. tim said on 17 Jul 2006 at 11:10 pm:

    Hey guys,

    I’m being asked to switch my google based account to openid, but when I request a temp pass to be sent to my gmail, I never receive one.
    Please help, as I want to check out 2.0

  49. Jim said on 17 Jul 2006 at 11:12 pm:

    I never received the tpass email. Is your email server thing working?

  50. Dana said on 17 Jul 2006 at 11:14 pm:

    dang… same here… I think google has been sledgehammered with requests and has locked down or something

  51. Dana said on 17 Jul 2006 at 11:21 pm:

    Working now… try it again!

  52. Ulf Bopp said on 18 Jul 2006 at 6:08 am:

    I came back to try your site now that the changes are complete, and once again was unable to login within a reasonable amount of time.

    Is Zooomr a social engineering experiment, or a photo/community site?

    It’s free, but…

  53. violet said on 25 Jul 2006 at 1:32 pm:

    I signed up to this site yesterday, now i don’t understand how to log back in? Was i given a username yesterday? I don’t remember…

  54. siuyee said on 26 Jul 2006 at 9:58 pm:

    I have tried all the possible ways to login but none of them worked. I could only login by clicking on a photo I posted on my blog. Once I logged in, when I apply for the pro account, it says my blog post belongs to a different user.

  55. arnold said on 3 Sep 2006 at 1:14 am:

    Kris,

    OpenID is such a new concept (especially for non-bloggers), that many users are forgetting how to get back into Zooomr.

    I suggest finding an easier way to make sure your users can get back into the site.

    Good luck.

  56. stuart said on 11 Jan 2007 at 12:43 pm:

    Help - I don’t know how to log back into my pro account. You guys seem like you’re purposely trying to make the login process as difficult and confusing as possible. I just tried to log in using my Google account again but received this error: “Sorry Zooomr encountered an error.”
    Why not just use a simple, tried-and-tested, username and password??

  57. Maxwell Hammer said on 11 Jan 2007 at 4:50 pm:

    It’s not working. I can’t find my open id in my gmail, and when I try to merge the accounts it doesn’t work.

    This is crap. Why can’t you just make it a simple username/pass?

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    Doesn’t work, and I’m locked out. How can I get help?

  60. paul said on 7 Mar 2007 at 11:37 am:

    I’ve been trying this for MONTHS, ever since it was “launched”, and it’s never worked once.

  61. JR said on 28 Mar 2007 at 9:30 am:

    Trying to understand how this works is so difficult, I give up.

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    I don’t understand. this is extremely annoying. I’m not going to enter my gmail password here. is that even what I am supposed to do? had a friend’s ebay account hijacked last week. not using my password anywhere but gmail. why do you need so much security. they are just pictures for crying out loud. but good job on the rest of the site. this part sucks tho

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